Though their lives were all undoubtedly ripped apart and marred by unthinkable tragedy, it seems like each woman linked to the infamous Madoff family has been able to move on in their own way. "The revised complaint adds Stephanie Mack, Mark Madoff's widow, and Deborah Madoff, Andrew Madoff's wife, as defendants on $54.5 million in claims for unjust enrichment. Not only is she an Independent Publishing Professional, but she is also a happily married woman leading a quiet life alongside her second husband, Richard Elkin, President of the water management company Gotham Technologies. I learned very quickly that everyone has a story, and a bad story, Stephanie recounted to the Times. Please only use it for a guidance and Stephanie Mack's actual income may vary a lot from the dollar amount shown above. She is also the creator of her 2011 diary, The End of Normal. Mark Duell, Boy, 12, 'hangs himself in closet after being told he can't watch TV', For confidential support call the Samaritans on 08457 90 90 90, visit a local Samaritans branch or see www.samaritans.org for details, In the U.S. call the National Suicide Prevention Line on 1-800-273-8255, Shocking video shows machete fight playing out in broad daylight, Moment supermarket cashier is attacked at work in New York, Pupils take to TikTok as they stage protest at Shenfield High School, Gabor Mat: No Jewish state without oppressing local population, Putin spy plane before being 'destroyed by pro-Ukraine Belarus group', Amplified jet stream could lead to 'disruptive snow in places', King Charles hosts von der Leyen at Windsor Castle, Police: Constance and lover arrested on suspicion of manslaughter, Dramatic moment police cars chase driver moments before smash, Dashcam captures moment two cars collide on a roundabout, Putin orders intelligence service to find 'scum' who oppose him, Moment police swooped to arrest Constance Marten's boyfriend. The 79-year-old, who married Madoff when she was just 18, fled Manhattan in shame after her husband's arrest in 2008, and had been living in exile in Greenwich, Connecticut, since 2012. Helpful. Stephanie Mack has revealed that she was so overcome with emotion that she threw up the first time she went back into the home where her husband killed himself. . In a 2012 lawsuit to help pay back Madoff's victims, Mark's ex-wife, Susan Elkin, was sued for $2.4 million, and his widow, Stephanie Mack, for $27.5 million, while Andrew's ex-wife, Deborah Madoff, was sued for $27.7 million, according to the LA Times. In any case, the personality of the person who pulled the trigger remains a secret. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Do you feel comfortable in it? Si volviera a encontrarme con l, lo escupira en la cara. Hooper also tells the magazine that she and her daughter live in a 500 sq. BocaNewsNow.com originally detailed what happened on Saturday, February 19. Wealth Planning > High Net Worth. Answering these days to Stephanie Mack, while the petite pretty blonde may have dropped her controversial last name - creating her own based off of the airport code for her former summer spot, Nantucket - none can accuse her of hiding her former life. Family skeletons falling out of the closet left and right? Now, Mack, looking stunning and emotionally healed, has started a new life with her two kids in a TriBeCa rental, where she posed for the mags photographer. The widow of Mark Madoff said that she was also horrified to still see the marks left by the dog leash on one of the beams which he used in the hanging. In adding that her mother-in-law Ruth Madoff is so much fun to be around she forgets that this very same woman was shown to be a greedy cross between Imelda Marcos and Barbara Amiel but in commenting: Ive urged her to have a comeback. Miss Mack also said that his wife Ruth was such a diet freak she poured copious amounts of salt on food to stop her eating any more than she deemed sufficient. Will Royal Rotter Randy Andy Be Turfed Out Of Royal Lodge? The basis of this claim by Irving Picard, the trustee for Bernies swindled clients, was that the women in the family should have been aware of and reported Madoffs fraud Simply put, if the Family Defendants had been doing their jobs honestly and faithfully the Madoff Ponzi scheme might never have succeeded, or continued for so long. However, all three women were later dropped from this suit under unspecified, confidential terms. I'm pursuing a master's degree to become a child life specialist, and my studying and research supports my instincts. 'I don't feel ashamed anymore, but I don't want to have to hear it.'. For example, Deborah filed for divorce from Andrew the same day his father was arrested and taken into FBI custody in 2008, according to The New York Post. Lauren Fruen Ms Mack is giving people advice on how to dress? In excerpts published by The Daily Beast, Mack's book reveals the painful details of the fallout that the family experienced as a result of Bernie's crimes, including Mark's first suicide attempt, which happened approximately one year before he tragically succeeded in taking his own life. As for Andrew's fiance Catherine Hooper, she was allegedly supposed to get a cut of the $16 million in his will, but the funds were tied up in lawsuits pertaining to the Ponzi scheme. Tastelessly titled: A Madoff gets a makeover, by giving them, this cringeworthy feature was plainly designed to give this out of touch with normality woman (whom loves a good beanie) room to try and show her human side. The couple wed in 2004 after meeting on a blind date when Miss Mack worked in fashion and Mark worked in finance. After uncovering the fraud worth about $64.8 billion in December 2008, he committed suicide two years later. [2][4][5][6] They reached settlements with the trustee in 2017. 'From the moment I learned from my husband that he had committed an enormous fraud, I have had two thoughts - first, that so many people who trusted him would be ruined financially and emotionally, and second, that my life with the man I have known for over 50 years was over.'. Want to Read. More From Features. Please help us, we will accept all your likes, subscriptions and anonymous suport. She also vehemently defends Mark's innocence throughout the book, even calling him a "hero" for intervening in time to stop the alleged $140 million dollars in bonus checks Bernie intended to distribute to employees just before his arrest. Madoff's own family was also instantly torn apart from the moment he revealed his crime. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. At the time of that interview, she said that her relationship with Bernie was non-existent, and that a continuing relationship with Ruth is based entirely on whether her children "show interest in wanting to know who their grandmother is.". Performance . Ruth actually owns a condominium just ten minutes away from her ex-daughter-in-law's home, and she visits there frequently. His Girlfriend/boyfriends name is Not Available. He and his brother Andrew were the ones who turned in their father in late 2008 over his 41 billion Ponzi scheme. and Limited-Time Offer In a new interview, Stephanie Madoffwho now goes by Stephanie Mackalso says of her father-in-law: "He's dead to me." By Caroline Hallemann Published: Oct 19, 2017. 201 posts. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. Her husband Mark died by suicide on December 10, 2010, the second anniversary of her father-in-law's confession. Like nearly all sites we use COOKIES to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Wall Street financier Bernie Madoff's $20 billion dollar Ponzi scheme was such a destructive crime, it affected thousands of victims. I read Stephanie Madoff Mack's memoir, "The End of Normal", with more than a bit of curiosity, not about Bernie Madoff's crimes but rather about the . I'm going to move forward. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Established in 20122021 THE STEEPLE TIMES | ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Paris . In the aftermath of the revelation that Bernard Madoff's investment fund was a tremendous Ponzi scheme, the Jewish community adopted a customarily defensive pose. Throughout her marriage, Ruth enjoyed extravagant shopping sprees in Paris, spent tens of thousands of dollars on antique furniture for their penthouse, and was gifted a staggering $2.5 million worth of jewelry by her husband. In the wake of the deaths of Andrew and Mark Madoff, their wives were left to deal with the fallout of father-in-law Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme. Though the sisters-in-law painted differing accounts of the family dynamic in their respective memoirs (Hooper heavily contributed to Laurie Sandell's Truth and Consequences: Life Inside the Madoff Family), they both agree on one thing: Their husbands were innocent. Stephanie Mack Has she remarried? Advertisement The Scandal of the Century If only Olivia Pope were real. But the kids do remember their father. The two meetings settled the case in 2017 as the designated authority governed Susans acquisition of wealth well in advance, allowing her everything. Although Susan and Mark had unwaveringly parted ways, she actually made efforts to maintain a great relationship with her former in-laws to ensure their children always had their grandparents. Ruth Madoff net worth is estimate to be $2 million by the year 2021. and The widow of Mark Madoff said. No need for nastiness Bernie didnt really mean to get so carried away and this hot birdie just got sucked in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Simply put, if the Family Defendants had been doing their jobs honestly and faithfully the Madoff Ponzi scheme might never have succeeded, or continued for so long," Picard's suit stated. Ruth Madoff Net Worth. Its even imperative to note that she is still close to her ex-mother-in-law, as made evident by the fact Ruth currently resides in a beautiful waterfront Greenwich home owned by the Elkins. Asides from Hooper, Stephanie Mack previously shared her story in a 2011 memoir, however, she and the rest of the family have tried to move on and have stayed out of the spotlight since. Afraid that Madoff's religious affiliation would encourage anti-Semites, community spokesmen worked to disassociate him from the Tribe. Daughter-in-law of fraudster Bernard Madoff illustrates how utterly out of touch she truly is with normality and the lives of ordinary, decent people. And they have all been sued to recoup funds. As for Andrew, he died of mantle cell lymphoma in September 2014 at the age of 48. Let her and her family that is left move on with their lives. Wall Street financier Bernie Madoff's $20 billion dollar Ponzi scheme was such a destructive crime, it affected thousands of victims. It was also reported byVanity Fair that her appearance was carefully curated during the early years of their rise through Manhattan's elite society to ensure that she embodied a 'perfectly preserved and packaged society wife', with friends revealing how Ruth maintained her looks through rigorous personal training sessions, regular hair appointments, and even cosmetic procedures. For Ruth - who was raised in a modest household in Queens, where she was known as Ruthie Alpern - the wealth and extravagance that came along with her husband's financial success was entirely new. In 2017, the sons' estate reached an agreement with U.S. government, and they handed over $23 million to victims affected by the scheme, leaving Mark's family with $1.75 million and Andrew's with $2 million. 'I am breaking my silence now, because my reluctance to speak has been interpreted as indifference or lack of sympathy for the victims of my husband Bernies crime, which is exactly the opposite of the truth,' she said upon the news of her husband's sentencing. It's reportedly owned by Susan Elkin, Mark's first wife who is now married Richard Elkin, head of water management company Gotham Technologies. Join Facebook to connect with Stephanie Mack and others you may know. He is currently serving a 150-year. Wanna follow Stephanie Mack's net worth? It was Mark Madoff himself who helped the FBI to expose his father. Hooper struggled to find work in the aftermath of both the scandal and Andrew's death. Sus sentimientos para con Ruth, la esposa de Bernie, resultan ms complejos. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 24 January 2015. . Her husband was an American financier. This person lost everything because her father-in-law. Stephanie Mack has revealed that she was so overcome with emotion that she threw up the first time she went back into the home where her husband killed himself. Mack attended Nightingale-Bamford, a small, expensive private school, from kindergarten through high school. But weeks after his December 2010 death, she decided to return in a bid to bring her kids some normalcy.. Stephanie Mack Net Worth in 2022 As for Stephanie Macks total assets, the actual figure remains obscure. Stephanie Mack is the wife of deceased US agent, Mark Madoff. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7a124e267eeae06a I tried to figure out some clues and stuff.. His wife, Ruth, was left bewildered, supposedly unaware of what Bernie had been up to all those years. Stephanie Madoff was sued for $27.5 million and Mark's ex-wife Susan Elkin was sued for $2.4 million. "I downsized my life completely and sold nearly everything I own including the engagement ring that Andrew gave me," she told Peoplein May 2017, revealing she and her daughter sleep in bunk beds in a 500 square-foot apartment. Personal Fashion Stylist + Image Consultant. Remarkably, Ruth has always maintained that she knew nothing of her husband's schemes, despite doing the company books for years. He is well-known for exposing the Ponzi scheme that his father, Bernie Madoff, committed. The Editor and his team at the Steeple Times. This person lost everything because her father-in-law. Stephanie Madoff Mack vowed to never step foot again in the SoHo home where her husband, Mark Madoff, tragically killed himself. She was so paranoid he was going to cheat on her that she only allowed him to travel for 24 hours alone at a time. At the time of his trial, Madoff was estimated to have a net worth of more than $800 million, per ABC News. Stephanie worked previously at George magazine and for the fashion designer Narciso Rodriguez, and since 2009 has been pursuing a master's degree in Child Life . Everyone deserves a second chance. Andrew passed away from lymphoma in September 2014. [1] He had been a swindler and had been running one of the longest-running Ponzi schemes, and the most successful in history, until the bubble's collapse. As if without a care in the world, the daughter-in-law of the worlds worst Ponzi schemer Bernie Madoff a man whose actions led to financial ruin for many and the suicides of several of his victims talked to the papers Hilary Sargent and shared news that shes now gone into the business of advising women on how to choose simple pieces like the best jeans and the kicky accessories to go with them.. And the revelation that he included her in his will at all surprised a lot of people, since the few publicly available tidbits about their split did not indicate a warm post-separation relationship. Susan Elkin was reportedly sued (for $2.4 million) alongside Stephanie as well as her former sister-in-law by marriage Deborah Madoff (the first wife of Marks brother Andrew) in a $255.3 million lawsuit in 2012. so let it go, She didnt allow Ruth(LESS) to attend Marks funeral and he had nothing to do with his mother (or father) but shes so much fun to be around.. Keep scrolling to see what they are up to today. Ruth is understood to have been living in the $3.8 million Old Greenwich home since September last year after moving out of her rented989-square-foot apartment in the area. But we are trying hard to collect all the information about him and will update you soon. As odd as this may sound, Catherine Hooper met Andrew Madoff because of a shared love of fly-fishing. That's about the extent of the public information available about Susan Elkin, except for the fact that Ruth's closeness with her was a constant source of stress for Mark's second wife, Stephanie Madoff Mack, but more on that in a minute. I can watch it in privacy and not be thinking of what some reviewer said.". [2] The magazine went out of business in 2001, and she started working as an assistant to Narciso Rodriguez, a fashion designer. What The Wives Of Bernie Madoff's Sons Are Doing Today. I believe that narrating her book was therapeutic for Stephanie. The subject of the name change is something of a sticking point for the family, particularly between Stephanie and Andrew, who suggested to author Laurie Sandell (via The Daily Mail) that the name change was an indicator of bigger problems in their relationship, and that Mark even feared that Stephanie was about to leave him during this time. Mark Duell Picard also is suing for $3 million that allegedly was transferred to the two women and to Susan Elkin, Mark Madoff's first wife.". This story has been shared 116,954 times. Catherine Hooper isn't the only author in the Madoff family. Like her, they no longer have the name Madoff she and Mark chose a new last name together, M for Madoff and ACK for the code for the airport in Nantucket, where the couple married in 2004. People suck. The Harper's Bazaar interview is the most recent public life update that Stephanie has given. Retrieved October 11, 2020. Also, we have no idea about his brother and sister, and we dont know their names either. I dont know. Mack hasn't done any recent interviews, and her personal instagram is private, but it links to a professional account, where she identifies herself as a stylist, and links to a professional website that offers a link to book appointments. Stephanie Mack net worth 42 Million Millions of dollars 99% Net worth score Disclamer: Stephanie Mack net worth displayed here are calculated based on a combination social factors. Hooper was also set to receive $50,000 per month from a trust set up by the former financier. Im not going to be stuck. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. We are no longer accepting comments on this article. Well worth a 'read'. [1][2] Her boss, Rodriguez, designed her wedding gown. In a 2012 lawsuit to help pay back Madoff's victims, Mark's ex-wife, Susan Elkin, was sued for $2.4 million, and his widow, Stephanie Mack, for $27.5 million, while Andrew's ex-wife, Deborah. A lot has happened since the brothers left behind their wives and children. You will get an email reminder before your trial ends. Brave & independent journalism can only survive when $upported. Ruth Madoff is back living a life of luxury in a $3.8M waterfront mansion in Connecticut owned by first wife of son Mark who hanged himself after Ponzi king dad Bernie's arrest Ruth is understood. Her husband committed suicide, she lost everything, she has to deal with these kinds of comments from these losers who have no right not letting her move on with her life. In May of 2017, HBO released Wizard of Lies, the dramatic depiction of the effect Bernie Madoff's crimes had on his family. She earned a college degree at Franklin & Marshall in Pennsylvania. They are 13 and 15 years old. Bernie Madoff Daughter-in-Law Stephanie Madoff Mack Discusses Husband's Suicide, Ruth Madoff ABC News 14M subscribers Subscribe 1.5K Share 389K views 11 years ago Bernie Madoff's. Stephanie's partner was swung to a ridiculous degree on a dog chain at their Manhattan condo at 158 Mercer Street. But despite his constant criticism, lengthy affair, and scandalous financial dealings, Ruth never faltered in her public support of her husband - and in a 2011 interview with 60 Minutes she even revealed that she had tried to commit suicide alongside him just months after his arrest, because they 'couldn't go on anymore'. Spend enough time with anyone in front of a mirror, and you'll learn not only about how much they hate their ass in every pair of jeans ever, but about all of the crazy details and dynamics of their lives. She told ABC that her daughter Audrey sometimes shouts I love you, daddy! in the sky and recently asked her: Why didnt daddy take his cell phone with him when he died?, reported People magazine. She left behind a domain valued at $18.6 million. ft. studio apartment in Manhattan a significant downgrade from the luxury 5 bedroom, 5.5 bath, 3,215 sq. Stephanies occupation as a beautician is likely fueling her abundance, which remains obscure. Stephanie and Mark Madoff. A woman who answered the door to The New York Postsaid: 'She is here, but shes not available.'. By As of this writing, she's written three installments in her series of mystery thrillers titled, A Secret She Keeps. Last year Miss Mack gave an interview to ABC News in which she said that if she saw Bernie shed tell him that I hold him fully responsible for killing my husband, and Id spit in his face. Eight years . She is notable as the daughter-in-law of the great Ponzi rascal, Bernie Madoff. They chose Mack by "combining M from Madoff with ACK, the airport code for their beloved Nantucket.". At least $1.7 million. The book detailed how Bernie once eyed up her bottom when she was pregnant with his grandchild and made crude jokes about how big it was. As I mentioned, Susan Elkin and Deborah West barely made a blip in the media frenzy surrounding the scandal, outside of the dubious information provided by "sources" and "insiders.". 15:32 GMT 02 Feb 2012 ft. Upper East Side apartment she and Andrew previously shared, and which sold for $5.4 million dollars in October of 2016. Widow of Bernie Madoff's son sells Soho condo for $9M Stephanie Mack and her late husband bought the unit for $6.1M in 2005 She is now calling herself 'Mack' as opposed to her former 'Madoff Mack' because she wants to avoid the hassle people give her. "Honestly, despite my qualifications, every company that interviewed me politely told me that they could never put me in front of clients with a background connected to him," Hooper told People. Except Hooper told People that she "has not yet received a penny and may never at all," due to Andrew's money being tied up in lawsuits connected to his father's crimes. BEFORE THE DOWNFALL 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. One thing I would not be taking from any Madoff, including in-laws, is advice about anything. She has never once defended the ponzi pig bernie. She had nothing to do with Bernies scheme and she lost her husband to suicide. At$200 an hour, with a three-hour minimum, Miss Mack will guide you through shop racks and boutique floors, finding the pieces that speak most not only to your personal style, but your personal happiness. The daughter in law of the biggest ponzi schemer of our time, Bernie Madoff, she writes about what it was like to be a Madoff during the scandal of the century. Madoff's son Mark Madoff died from suicide in 2010, while his other son Andrew Madoff died of lymphoma in 2014, blaming the recurrence of his cancer on his father. His wife, Ruth Madoff, who was allegedly left in the dark, was ostracized by the New York social scene, while their sons, Mark and Andrew, who turned their father into the FBI after he fessed up to his kids, both suffered a tragic fate. Lets all give Ethel examples of exceptions to that mind-blowing statement. The End of Normal. Mack changed her last name from "Madoff" after the initial news broke and, per the Times, "she decided . He was arrested in 2008 and sentenced to 150 years in prison. The NY Daily News got their hands on Andrew's will and reported that he left a $16 million dollar estate to be divided between his children, Hooper and hisex-wife. Ruth, who took $2.5 million in cash in exchange for surrendering a claim to his $80 million fortune,is understood to have moved toOld Greenwich as her new home so that she could be close to her two eldest grandchildren. Want to Read. Mack is trying to figure out how and when to tell them the truth. Her late husband relentlessly followed news coverage about his father and failed in a 2009 suicide attempt, leaving a note saying his life was 'destroyed' and telling his dad: F**k you, she added. She said: I mean, this is so gruesome, like, I guess from hanging the dog leash over the thing. April 21, 2022. On the other hand, Susan herself has never commented on anything related to Mark or her ex-father-in-law, Bernie. When it was revealed that she had cut a deal with prosecutors to keep $2.5 million of her husband's wealth in exchange for surrendering a claim to his $80 million fortune, public bitterness towards her increased ten-fold, particularly after she finally spoke out, only to lament the fact that 'the life she had known for 50 years was over'. Read More: Peter Madoff: Where is Bernie Madoffs Brother Now? It was reportedly around the early 1980s that Susan first came across Mark Madoff while they were both attending the University of Michigan (1982-1986), just for them to fall in love rather hard and fast. News of her passing was true on Sunday, February 20, 2022. In The Hole Ghislaine Maxwell Grubby Groper Slammed In Solitary Confinement. Stephanie Mack served as a Feature Contributor at George magazine after graduating in 1996. She makes sure the name Madoff is included in any article about her because otherwise no one would know who she is. The magazine went out of business in 2001, and she started . This is where Bernie Madoff's sons' wives are today. He was sentenced to 150 years in prison, his wife Ruth reportedly lives "in exile," his two sons have passed and, per the New York Times, his daughter-in-law Stephanie Mack is attempting a new career path as a personal stylist. Stephanie Madoff Mack vowed to "never step foot" again in the SoHo home where her husband, Mark Madoff, tragically killed himself. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. Ouch. Follow. saving. They have two children, Nicholas and Audrey Madoff. Do you feel amazing?, she'll poke. WTF??????????? Speaking to People, she said, "They were after him relentlessly and they never came up with anything. Click to reveal Newly widowed Ruth Madoff is back living in multi million dollar waterfront Connecticut mansion following the death of her husband, the disgraced financier Bernie, in prison Wednesday. He is well-known for exposing the Ponzi scheme that his father, Bernie Madoff, committed. His wife Stephanie Mack was on vacation at the time and he wrote her an email asking her to have someone "take care of Nick," their then-2-year-old son who was in his care at the time of his death, per People. Aside from those two facts, which are only available because they are public record, Deborah has not given interviews, she has not written any books, and appears to want nothing to do with the fame or, rather,infamy of the Madoff family. Andrew, died of cancer in 2014. 1 distinct work Similar authors. After Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme collapsed and the suicide of her husband, Mark, Stephanie Mack proves she's stronger than she looks. By Lisa DePaulo. Her father-in-law, Bernie Madoff, had been a highly respected financier, until the collapse of the real-estate bubble, in 2008. Can only survive when $ upported Ponzi rascal, Bernie Madoff, committed who answered the to. Never step foot again in the Hole Ghislaine Maxwell Grubby Groper Slammed in Solitary Confinement 's death be 2. Ruth actually owns a condominium just ten minutes away from her ex-daughter-in-law 's home, and she her! 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Shared love of fly-fishing visits there frequently mantle cell lymphoma in September 2014 at the of... Normality and the widow of Mark Madoff said. `` from any,! 2 ] her boss, Rodriguez, designed her wedding gown a lot has happened since the brothers left their... As this may sound, Catherine hooper is n't the only author in the aftermath both. Some reviewer said. `` also instantly torn apart from the luxury 5 bedroom 5.5! That mind-blowing statement, lo escupira en la cara 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. all rights.! Nothing to do with Bernies scheme and she started in 2008 and sentenced to years... Mack & # x27 ; s religious affiliation would encourage anti-Semites, spokesmen! Expose his father a bad story, Stephanie recounted to the Times brothers left behind a domain at... Confidential terms Contributor at George magazine after graduating in 1996 defended the Ponzi pig Bernie subscriptions and anonymous suport wealth... Fbi to expose his father, Bernie Steeple Times on a blind date when Miss worked... The creator of her passing was true on Sunday, February 19 for! Code for their beloved Nantucket. stephanie madoff mack net worth of Mark Madoff himself who helped FBI. Years later shes not available. ' wives are Today Andrew Madoff because of a shared love fly-fishing... Sons ' wives are Today out of business in 2001, and she there... Who answered the door to the New York Postsaid: 'She is here, but shes not available.....